If you can change the vehicle taxation class to showmans you can get TFL to exempt you, ok so you need to blag that your vehicle is showmans, here is what the taxation class notes says about what is a showmans.

'what it says' in dept of transports V355/1 notes on taxation classes.

a showmans vehicle is a vehicle registered in the name of a person who follows the business of a travelling showman and which is used solely by himfor that purpose, and is a goods vehicle permanently fitted with a living van or some other superstructure forming part of the show of the registered keeper.

tis the only exemption i know of that might work for some peeps.

Reply to : DodgyNut

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HiHave the same problem with the LEZ. Its not so easy to move out of London, ie work.Can somebody please suggest a cheaper way than coughing up 3 grand?Thanks

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A set of non UK plates and some cheap sign writing for an EU company should work just fine for at least 6 months - non UK registered vehicles were exempt from what I heard as (surprise, surprise) they aren't on the DVLA computer.
Just to cover my back in case anybody thinks I'm talking about just putting a pair of polish plates on you nicked from the plumbers BMW - (which would be very naughty), you would need to register the vehicle to an address in that country which would probably mean actaully going there - good excuse for a holiday though!
It would save you from the congestion charge as well.

The only other suggestion is installing a big V8 petrol with an LPG conversion - gas powered vehicles were exempt....

I live in Ilford and am looking at paying £75,000 a year to park my Dodge on my driveway.  It's simply beyond ridiculous.  Of course some get off, because they're a pig to track down and extract cash from.  Only 4 weeks after finding my ideal Dodge and beginning the workshop conversion in the back, I get hit with this nonsense.  The categorisation is indiscriminate and gets worse in 2010, check this out, a P100 diesel pickup (basically a Sierra) is liable to LEZ tax yet a diesel Sierra (same vehicle as the P100 but not a pickup) goes FOC.

This is worth a look.

http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/doc.asp?doc=19385

As is this series of emails (why do TfL encapsulate their emails in PDF form?)

Zanx
Good afternoon, I'm just checking to see if TFL has any plans in the pipleine to penalise any other groups of road users other than users of diesel vehicles.  The retrospective LEZ requirements have rendered my van almost worthless and there is no way I can afford £75000 a year to park it on my drive (I live in the zone).  I am therefore forced to purchase a gas guzzling petrol engined van because I cannot afford a Euro 3 diesel van, I would therefore like to know if TFL intend to penalise users of petrol engined vans in the future so I can avoid wasting even more of my time and money.

Regards

TfL
Transport for London
Sir / Madam
Dear Sir Madam,
Our ref: L1680047
Transport for London
London Low Emission Zone
PO Box 4544
Coventry CV6 9DW
Phone 0845 607 0009
International +44207 310 8998
www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon
18th January 2008
London Low Emission Zone (LEZ) - L1680047 / AQ
Thank you for your enquiry received on 17 January 2008, regarding the any proposed schemes
that may affect petrol vehicles.
I can confirm that at this stage there are no schemes like the LEZ Scheme that are planned to
affect operators of vans that run on petrol.
The LEZ Scheme aims to reduce air pollution by discouraging the most polluting vehicles from
driving within Greater London. These are generally older, diesel-engined lorries, buses, coaches,
large vans, minibuses and other heavy vehicles that are derived from lorries and vans such as
motor caravans and motorised horse boxes.
The Mayor has a legal obligation to take steps towards meeting national and European Union
(EU) air quality objectives which are designed to protect human health. Based on current trends,
and without further action, it is predicted that London will not meet its 2010 objectives for
reducing the pollutant PM10 (fine particulates) In London, road transport is the single biggest
source of emissions of this pollutant. Encouraging certain vehicles to meet emission standards to
drive within the LEZ would reduce the concentration of PM10 in the air, and thereby improve
the health of people living in, working in and visiting the capital.
If you have any questions regarding the Scheme you may find it useful to visit our website, just
log on to www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon. You may also telephone our Contact Centre on 0845 607
0009, Textphone 0207 310 8999 (if you have impaired hearing), where a member of staff will be
more than happy to help.
Thank you for contacting Transport for London.
Daljit Mahal
Operations Manager
Yours sincerely
London Low Emission Zone
MAYOR OF LONDON

Zanx

Dear sir, thank you for your reply.  Please could you advise as to what steps are being taken to exclude non compliant vehicles running on biodiesel from the £200 a day LEZ charge.  Also, according to LEZ research, what percentage of total HGV PM10 emissions is down to privately owned motorhomes and vehicles.

Kind regards,

Gary Zanco.

TfL

Transport for London
Our ref: L1680567
PO Box 4544
Coventry CV6 9DW
Phone 0845 607 0009
International +44 207 310 8998
www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon
Transport for London
London Low Emission Zone
Dear Sir/Madam,
31st January 2008
London Low Emission Zone (LEZ) - L1688606 / AQ
Thank you for your enquiry received on 28th January 2008, regarding the LEZ Scheme.
Vehicles run on biofuels are not exempt from the LEZ because most vehicles can operate on a
mix of biofuel and conventional diesel fuel. Vehicle owners could therefore use either biofuel or
conventional diesel fuel in their vehicles, and there would be no practical way of determining
which fuel has been used. Transport for London (TfL) therefore, does not exempt biofuel
vehicles from the LEZ.
TfL has setup an accreditation program with certification schemes run by the Energy Savings
Trust and the Vehicle Certification Agency, both independent bodies, that test emissions
standards and approve vehicles or exhaust systems according to a strict set of standards,
including an appropriate level of PM emissions. More information on this process is available on
our website, www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon
With regard to what percentage of total Particulate Matter (PM10) emissions is down to privately
owned motor homes and vehicles, I can inform you that our vehicle data is derived from Driver
and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) records and data from the Society of Motor Manufacturers
Traders (SMMT). This data does not break down into vehicle type and thus it is impossible to
determine the level of PM emissions from certain types of vehicles. Further it would be
impossible to tell the exact amount of emissions of any vehicle because the data on vehicle
travel habits does not exist.
If you have any questions regarding the Scheme you may find it useful to visit our website, just
log on to www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon. You may also telephone our Contact Centre on 0845 607
0009, Textphone 0207 310 8999 (if you have impaired hearing), where a member of staff will be
more than happy to help.
Thank you for contacting Transport for London.
Daljit Mahal
Operations Manager
Yours faithfully
London Low Emission Zone


Zanx
I'll be straight, I think the lack of diligence shown by TFL towards categorising vehicles is shameful, you can not fall on the excuse that it's DVLA that are making the decisions for you when it could cost ordinary people unfortunate enough to own a non compliant vehicle and who live inside the zone £75,000 a year.  I shall give an example of how the categorisiation is flawed.  Please observe the two attached photographs, can you see a difference?  Both are diesel Ford Sierras of a similar age, same colour, same engine, however, one of them is a pickup and the other is a car.  One will cost the owner £200 a day to use inside the zone and the other will cost nothing.  On the TFL website it says cars will not be affected by the 2010 charge, I would like to request the method TFL uses to determine what is car and what is van because I see many many amercian dayvans with diesel engines that are NOT commercial vehicles, they are clearly used as personal cars, they have seats and all the comforts of a car, yet they are subject to the charge when vehicles like the Renault Espace is not.  They are both created for the same purpose and used for the same thing, yet by some random bad luck, one will cost £200 a day to use in the zone and one will not.  I suggest that TFL liaise with DVLA a little more and come up with more thoughtful and less sweeping (and profitable) generalisations of what constitutes a van and what constitutes a car, and apply a little comon sense.  Blaming DVLA will not relieve TFL of the responsibility it has to accuratley and fairly categorise vehicles that are subject to the charge, especially when it is likely to have such an adverse effect on people living in or driving into the zone.  I shall be contacting my MP regarding the glaring lack of diligence in this matter.

Kind regards,

Gary Zanco.







No reply yet.  Pertinent points in RED.  Seems that they have a tax now, carry out proper research later policy.  What about black cabs?  Given the sheer number of black cabs on the streets of London, most of them with intergalactic mileages, I'd put a Soapy Tenner on them chucking out more partuculates than ALL of the old trucks and lorries travelling round London.  Of course, that data conveniently doesn't exist.  Cretins.



Post edited to remove offending wording.

Once my Dodge has gone, I'll be looking for a pre-72 HGV with the biggest engine available because pre 72 vehicles are exempt.

Eh erm!!! I understand you are not happy with TFL. I am also not happy with them but please Gary, I am a showman and will not be able to get my bus exempt as it is not a specially addepted vehicle.


I will now read through your post, I only got as far as that bit ooppssss:-)


Another edited post.

Greg

Dear Zanx

I can understand how the LEZ restrictions are making life very hard for alot of people. 
How angry and pissed off all you lovely people who live and work in london must be.
We work in London from time to time and are also affected, all be it to a lesser extent than your good self.
My sympathies to you and I wish you lots of luck in your battles with the righteous focus of your/our discontent, namely the TFL. 
I certainly think that any negativity on the subject would be best served up to them big and large, as it is their very well paid job to sort this issue out to the benefit of all.
The subject of exemptions does provide a loop hole for some to exploit and this does seem very unfair, especially
if you feel this gives some people an unfair advantage that you dont think they deserve.

However I really do feel quite sad when humanity loses ground to anger.  Alas this can be a problem when dealing with contentious issues. No doubt there are many unsavoury characters living and working on the road but lets not get caught up in targeting what we consider are particular groups. There is good and bad in all walks of life and that there will be many that will benefit from the exemptions for legitimate and honest reasons.
Live and let live darling!

Lots o luck and a nice cuppa tea an a bit o cake :)

dodge pixie

Of course, you are right, having a nice chocolate orange coco right now as it happens :)

The real issue here is that TL have used the LEZ issue to circle the M25 and all areas within, with ANPR cameras, LEZ was just a means to an end, mark my words.

Thanks for the words Pixie, maybe it's time that I got out of here and stopped strutting round like Terminator II.

[EMOTE]smiley-tongue-out.gif[/EMOTE]

Zanx, Black cabs were the first to be hit, they had to be LEZ compliant by Jan 1st 2007, but they were all subsidised not like everyone else who will have to pay very dearly for conversion equipment or like me have to buy much newer vehicles. As most Dodges will have to comply by July 2008, theres still a few months to try and clean up their emissions, I`m sure the very expensive exhaust filters will drop in price soon, there may even be a few used ones in salvage yards from damaged trucks, changing to biodeisel helps. when you`ve done all you can to clean up the exhaust take it for a pollution test (only costs £18.00 to test), if its clean enough you will get an RPC for it (reduced pollution certificate). If you dont drive the vehicle within the zone you wont have to pay the charge, unless its parked in full view of one of the zone cams I would presume.

I think you'll find that the exhaust filters are registered to the vehicle that they are originally fitted to, so even if there are hundreds in scrap yards you can't take them of one vehicle and fit them to another.

There is such a shortage of supply that the prices won't be coming down anytime soon.

I have to say that I doubt that you will be able to get any Dodge 50 engines compliant because there won't be enough demand to warrent the manufacturers developing the systems to fit them.

Staying out of the Zone is likely to be the only answer.

Mutant, bit tricky if you live in the zone.  If I can't sell up by July, then I can declare SORN but if it's sold after July, then the buyer, or me, will have to pay £200 just to LEAVE London.


I'm shocked about the cab subsidy TBH, seems like the ordinary bod isn't being cut much slack.  Particulate filters have to come from a TfL approved list and can only be fitted by TfL approved fitter, funny handshakes anyone?

Also, the Perkins isn't on the TfL list of engines that can make the leap from non Euro to Euro III so it's a waste of time trying (that's how I understand it)  There will be no exceptions for biodiesel either.

Believe it or not, the TfL rep I spoke to actually suggested I  convert the engine to LPG, not possible says I, but it turns out that you can, it costs about 5k, and means new pistons, crank, ECU, injectors, head machining ect...

There`s not many engines on the TFL list, simply means the ones that are not will need complying equipment fitted, last year the prices of the filters were from £3000-£6000, today I see on 2 different sites the prices have dropped already they are from £1495.00 here...... http://www.kleenairsystems.co.uk/finstall.php and from £1795.00 here... http://www.dinex.co.uk/index.asp?pID={AAF81251-1BAD-4D3A-8847-32E8B9F23820} .
I dont suppose many of us will be going for the new 1104 series A Phaser 4.4 litre, probably a bit pricy should go straight in tho`..... http://www.perkins.com/cda/layout?m=97268&x=7 . Someone must come up with a 50 series that complies, we`ll all wait for the "manner in which" to be posted here! Even if they fit the peugeot 4pot petrol in it, if they dont do much mileage.
More and more garages are clammering for approval to retrofit, also many different systems manufacturers getting their equipment type approved, so it all forces the prices down. The later Phaser engines should be Euro I compliant and be able to be retrofitted. Needs checking.

There's still no guarantee once you've fitted any of these systems, that the vehicle will comply, AFAIK it still needs to pass a test at VOSA and get a RPC (Reduced Pollution Certificate) which is by no means a certainty, so you could have spent the money and still not comply.

May have found the solution.

Waiting for them to come ack to me but i read it could be in the early hunders for the 2012 purifier. check it out

http://www.cdti.com/lez/index.html



p.s. - i would still like off road parking as we don't live in it, we just go away a lot in it, ( I over use the words in it to show that it's a london ting ) so if anyones got contact for extremly cheap north of london, like near dunstable (as me in laws reside there and so does our mechanic who fixes it and so does the guy who doing some body work and so do the elephants in whipsnade ) please tell me!!! 

zippy
[EMOTE]smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif[/EMOTE]

p.s.s. a dodge is for life not just for festies

p.s.s.s. when's there gonna be another dodge meetup, we missed the last two but still wanna go.

Zippy, good find :)

I rang them and they're giving me a ball park figure of £2-2500 for a K reg Dodge.  Looks like she'll have to go.

The bloke I spoke to pointed out that the LEZ (or BEZ or MEZ) will be spreading to Manchester and Birmingham in due course.

And anyone thinking of touring Europe would do well to read this, lest you be reamed thoroughly.

http://www.lowemissionzones.eu/content/view/63/90/

Some posts by myself and zank have been edited due to requests by some members.

yeah, i got a big quote like that, my new direction is an lpg conversion, does anyone know much about diesel converts?

Here is who I am enquiring with.

http://www.ilovesponge.com/spongecars/diesel/diesel.htm

The FUTURE? MAYBE

By all means research the LPG conversions for diesels, but I think you'll find they only use about 25% LPG mixed with 75% diesel and although this does reduce emissions, I very much doubt whether TFL will accept this as a conversion that exempts you from the charge.

You have to remember that all the vehicles that are being charged £200 per day are LEGAL VEHICLES and have met or surpassed the emission criteria required BY LAW.

It is nothing more than a money making scheme introduced by a corrupt mayor and his cronies who want to see the introduction of a communist state.

Hi

Does anyone know if the Cummins B130/145 will mate to the gearbox on a series 1, 5 speed
that has a non compliant non turbo phaser engine
I see from the charts its listed as a compliant engine

Anyone any thoughts?

Possible/not conversion?

DIY/hard work/not worth the aggro?

Cummins is a 3.9ltr apparently fitted to Iveco 5/7.5t trucks

From the look of the regs any engine after Sept 2001 deemed compliant

or am I misreading things

nic

Hi,

Yes the LEZ is a bit of a nightmare.  I have done a lot of research and it seems there is no way around it.
You can apply for exemption if you can demonstrate that most of its use is agricultural or off road (or military), but when i spoke to TfL they thought the appeal would be rejected.

I am also now looking to sell my RB44 as the chepest conversion quote i could find came out at around 4k.

Luke c

There are some DIY kits now available from £1900 (Dinex, DiDOC+), Per-Tec, £2200, prices for 4 ltr diesel filters!

At last, The first 4 cylinder perky to appear on the approved device list, page 125 http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/roadusers/lez/approved-combined-device-list.pdf

bit confused - page 125?

This is the reason we came acoss our 89 Dodge, even after the previous owner had a cat fitted they still weren`t allowed to use it in the LEZ, turn left out of the yard was fine turn right and it was a £1000 fine!

 I thought the LEZ only applied to vehicles over 7.5t?

although I did hear something about impending ammendment to include all vans etc., i.e., commercials under 7.5t

Hi, the petrol slant six engine fitted in some mk1 dodge 50's will be ok and with lpg conversion even better but so many with diesel engines got scrapped a few years ago because of the nasty toll inforced on them, we stopped working at the royal national theater because of it, used to be top bill on the "Day to Play" spent 3 days and nights each year parked up in the circusbox dodge50 bus, right on the southbank, with our dog & the cat too, loved it but six hundred quid for 3 days was too much, the RNT couldn't cough it up to us or everyone would have asked for it even though they did try to. *sad face*

 I thought the LEZ only applied to vehicles over 7.5t?

although I did hear something about impending ammendment to include all vans etc., i.e., commercials under 7.5t

On Paul, it was anything over 3.5t about 4 years ago with a diesel engine, I could have tried to get away with it cos the bus was classed as a private bus and they were exempt but I didnt have enough seats so didnt want to risk it.