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Matthewe9675
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Date Posted:30/03/2011 11:59:34Copy HTML

Apologies if this has been covered before, I couldn't find it anywhere. I have a s56 4x4 camper and wondered what the maximum towing capacity would be?

Cheers - Matt.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:31/03/2011 12:46:22Copy HTML

 Hi there

we need to clarify what vehicle you have first, there were no dodge 50 s56 4x4's that I know of, there were S66 and S75 4x4 conversions and then there was the MOD spec RB44 which is essentially a S56 but not actually a S56.

Pop up the VIN number (look a bit like SDGB75AOCED211233 or If it is an RB it will be 9000345 or similar then I can tell you the GTW, also when did you pass your test as if before Jan 1997 the GTW is 8250 kgs (vehicle and trailer combined)  but that also depends on which vehicle you have.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:31/03/2011 01:23:56Copy HTML

Greg , In Boughton Group Parts Manual for 4x4 conversions they do actually list a S56 model in addition to  the 66 & 75  And give the Brake Specs for linings etc.  S56 & S66 having the Vacuum Hydraulic Brake system as opposed to the 75`s Air/Hyd. as you are already aware.

Whether they actually converted any may be a different matter .    

Right, I`ll just put me Anorak back on before I head out............
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:31/03/2011 03:39:14Copy HTML

Gents, the vin number is SDGB46K0GPD224871. The vehicle has hydraulic brakes - not air assisted. I passed my test in 1992 and the vehicle is registered as a private HGV / Motorhome.

The heaviest vehicle I will want to tow will be an approx 2000kg G Wagen on a trailer which I'm not sure of the weight of. Any idea if this will be possible / legal?


Cheers - Matt.

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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:31/03/2011 04:37:26Copy HTML

From the vin number it looks like it's a s46 not a s56?


Matt.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:31/03/2011 09:09:12Copy HTML

Blimey, I have never seen a 4x4 S46, here is the spec for a standard MK2 S46 with a turbo engine http://www.dodge50.co.uk/gallery2/s46-110-brochure-p1.html  Gross Train Weight 7100kgs, so  depending on what your vehicle weighs you may well get away with towing 2000kgs on a trailer.

You will need to check your licence to find out if you can drive with a trailer of that weight as I remember being told pre 1997 licence holders can only tow up to 750kgs but I have towed cars and trailers and all sorts BUT never stopped and not sure if that is true or not.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:31/03/2011 11:29:21Copy HTML

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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:31/03/2011 11:51:18Copy HTML

That's a photo of the Renault plate. There is a Reynolds B one as well which I will take a photo of later when I can move all the vehicles that are blocking it in on drive, (Can't open drivers door while on drive cus fence is in way).

My licence has categories B, BE, C1, C1E, D1, D1E, f, k, l, n, p

According to the DVLA web site:

Subcategory C1+E: Medium sized goods vehicles 3.5 - 7.5 tonnes MAM plus trailer over 750kgs MAM

Subcategory C1+E allows vehicles to be combined with a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the combination does not exceed 12 tonnes MAM and the laden weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.

Does this mean I can tow as long as the total weight of van, trailer and load does not come to more than 7100kg (From vin plate) and the trailer plus load is not heavier than the van is when unladen? Or is the 7100kg the maximum weight of the van when laden?

This is starting to get confusing...

I suppose the trailer will be about 650kg, the g wagen about 2000kg. So will I be able to tow 2650kg or will it depend on what my camper van weighs?

Cheers - Matt.

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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:01/04/2011 10:39:43Copy HTML

You are correct that the 7100KG is the max Train Weight including trailer.
5OOO kg is the Max gross of the van

So if your van weighs say  3,200kgs   & loaded trailer 3000kgs max your still ok by my reckoning.

(A Standard swb S46 MKII van 4x2   GVW is 4600 kgs)  But yours must be uprated allowing for the Boughton conversion (fr.axle ,trans .box etc.)

I guess you need to get the van weighed unladen but with tank of fuel.then you will know the max trailer weight possible.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:01/04/2011 07:34:52Copy HTML

There is a weigh bridge on one of the sites I look after at work. I'll have to see if I can persuade security to let me in to weigh the van. I have a feeling it's going to be very heavy - it makes 2 tons of G wagen look very weedy.

Do I need to fill my water and propane tanks as well as my fuel tank? I presume I would need all the equipment I normally carry like generator, spare wheel etc on board too as I will have them when towing. It's starting to look less and less feasible unless I am just being pessimistic...


Cheers - Matt.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:01/04/2011 07:58:18Copy HTML

 I suggest you do fill water / fuel / gas etc before weighing it, I reckon empty as a standard van (not fitted out) it would be about 3300kgs.

as for your licence, as long as on the photo id bit on the back where it says C1E it has 107 in the code column, then you can drive up to 8250 combined weight, well not with your vehicle, that is 7100kgs combined as shown on your VIN plate.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:11/04/2011 11:49:33Copy HTML

Well some good news and some bad news. The weighbridge at work isn't in use any more so I'm going to have to find one nearby and get it weighed. The good news seems to be that the 4x4 conversion gives a higher towing capacity - finally got a photo of other ID tag over the weekend:

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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:11/04/2011 11:51:16Copy HTML

Looks like another 400kg to play with!
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:11/04/2011 03:21:17Copy HTML

As long as the rear axle doesn't have over 3100kgs weight on it then you will be good to go, I know it says 3200 but having a spare 100kg is better than none at all. 
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:19/04/2011 03:36:25Copy HTML


Brimmed everything today, fuel, lpg, both water tanks and loaded genny and everything on board. Also the grey and black  waste tanks have got something lurking in there...

Went to the weighbridge - bad news! 5230kg, that includes me but not the missus! :)

Next step is to do the same again with all the water tanks empty and see what difference that makes. Will also be looking at other areas where weight could be saved, the winch bumper and PTO must weigh a fair amount...

Maybe a lighter drivers seat instead of the heavy swivelling leisure seat that hasn't got room to swivel.

The missus starts her diet tonight - I've not told her yet!

Step one is get the van below 5000kg. After that I need to work out how to get the G wagen down in weight a bit. Looks like strip out time and some lighter front seats...

Oh and a lighter trailer. Looks like this is going to be expensive :(

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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:19/04/2011 07:00:45Copy HTML

What about upgrading the S46 to S56? http://www.dodge50.co.uk/downrating/RDE032.pdf


as you have Larger springs for the 4x4 conversion you will have S56 springs already, so you just change the Load Sensing Valve (LSV) data chart to the S56 spec (or the RB44 spec) and reset the LSV.

Fill in a VTG10 form and use the above RDE conversion reference and get it checked by vosa and bobs ya uncle...maybe.

Tis well worth checking out IMO.

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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:19/04/2011 07:04:04Copy HTML

Your springs could well be the S75 (7500kgs) version as these were fitted to many of the 4x4's including the RB44 (5700kgs MVW)


so have you got stacked leaf springs on front and rear or have you got parabolic single leafs on the front and 3 leaf on the rear? 

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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:20/04/2011 04:41:39Copy HTML

 i understand now why you dont get much power going up hills :P
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:20/04/2011 04:44:51Copy HTML

 cant remember where i saw it (prob on a land rover forum a few years back) but i remember somebody saying something about removing the front drive shaft (if you dont need 4wd) as that is an easyish way to remove some weight.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:20/04/2011 06:51:09Copy HTML

Removing the front prop is not really an option as it wont reduce the weight much and as you need to carry it onboard in case you need it it might as well be left on. Upgrading to s56 is the best option IMO.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:20/04/2011 06:52:32Copy HTML

I ment drive shafts not prop.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:22/04/2011 08:08:34Copy HTML

 i saw it years ago, im sure on a landrover forum where somebody was just using it as a run about and refused to get rid of it but wanted to save on fuel.

id agree with greg about up rating, then any weight you can loose is a bonus, and not a necessity
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:23/04/2011 11:56:49Copy HTML

Stacked springs front and rear - looks to be about 6. I am going to need the four wheel drive as shipping camper to Iceland in June. I am going to dump all liquids that aren't needed when mobile, look at lighter drivers seat and change the steel winch rope to man made fibre rope. This should sort things out weight wise for when I'm not towing. It will be pretty much at maximum weight then. I will only be towing my G Wagen a couple of times a year, all other vehicles I'm going to be towing are a lot lighter.

Will uprating to S56 require a trip to a Renault truck specialist or is it something I can do my self? I'm reasonably competent mechanically. If it requires a trip to Renault will they be likely to be able to carry out the work still? I'm guessing that would be expensive?

Also will it increase the vehicle train weight?

Thanks for the input - Matt.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:23/04/2011 07:11:57Copy HTML

 To uprate on a Mk2 S46 to S56 you need to first measure the thickness of the springs, the Mk1 with stacked leaf springs S46 to S56 upgrade says this

fit R+B56 (S56) front springs, 5 leaf, stack height 50 mm 
- fit R+B56 (S56) rear springs, 6 leaf, stack height 88 mm 

So measure the thickness of yours.
It also mentions chassis strengthing and brake upgrade but as you have a MK2 you don't have to do that.

The Standard Mk2 had parabolic springs and says this for uprating

Revised plating to be achieved  by conversion of vehicle to condition recognised as standard Type Approved 
specification for S56 as above. The method is as follows:-
  - applicable from chassis number SDG### ##219000
- fit R1B56 (S56) front springs, (1 leaf, thickness 9,5 to 23 mm)
- fit R1B56 (S56) rear springs, (3 leaf, stack height 57 mm excluding packer)
- fit new LSV data plate, part number 0038661000, stamped with R1B56 data
- reset load sensing valve


So It looks to me that as long as your springs are up to S56 spec you should be able to get a vosa inspection on the springs, using the Mk1 s46 to S56 uprating forum to show the correct spring spec as you dont have parabolic springs like standard Mk2's here http://www.dodge50.co.uk/downrating/RDE049a.pdf 

and the Mk2 S46 to S56 uprating form to show your vehicle brakes spec is correct here http://www.dodge50.co.uk/downrating/RDE032.pdf , you would also need to get the load sensing valve reset and the plate remade, this is easy and a laminate of a blank original is ok to use, i can supply a good copy for you to print out and attach to a card and laminate yourself, I know of others who have uprated and done this.

It is quite an easy thing to do, all you need is a mechanic (or yourself) to reset the LSV (I can supply setting info), if the springs are up to spec then you can book a vosa appointment and get them to inspect it.
And bobs ya uncle, you can't however go up to S66 as the brakes you have won't suffice, the fronts would as they are the same as a S75 but the rears will most likely be based on S35 rear brakes like the RB44's are.

I don't have the build sheets for vehicles made after July 1990 and yours is newer than that, otherwise i could tell you exactly what was fitted.


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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:23/04/2011 11:33:26Copy HTML

Oh, don't worry that the links above say downrating, that is just the folder they are kept in.

As for trainweight, yes, would go up to 8100kgs

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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:24/04/2011 12:04:58Copy HTML

Excluding packers it looks like about 85mm thickness for the rear spring pack, 60mm for the front?

Cheers - Matt.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:24/04/2011 12:58:55Copy HTML

I will measure the ones on my S75 and also a set of new front RB44 ones I have to compare but it sounds like you have what you need already to me.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:24/04/2011 02:07:59Copy HTML

Sounds promising! Thanks for your help.


Cheers - Matt.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:25/04/2011 05:40:20Copy HTML

Reply to Matthewe9675 (23/04/2011 12:56)
 I am going to need the four wheel drive as shipping camper to Iceland in June. 


sounds very interesting, am rather jelous of you
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:30/04/2011 04:07:24Copy HTML

I have always wanted to go, I bought the camper specially for the trip. After a bit of research it seems like shipping it via Eimskip or Samskip is the best option for getting it there. To do it by ferry is time consuming and expensive as you have to get to denmark to get the ferry to iceland. Are you actually based in Sweden?

I have emailed RB to see if they can supply any more info on my vehicle. They are only just down the road from me near Burton on Trent. I am in Derby. I got an out of office emails so not expecting a reply until next week.


Matt.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:02/05/2011 03:24:42Copy HTML

 yeah live in göteborg (gothenburg), moved here about a year or so ago from strangely enough burton on trent.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:02/05/2011 03:27:18Copy HTML

my picture avatar thing is me renault strapped to the deck of the ferry when we moved


If something works, celebrate with tea and cakes... If it dosent, have tea and cakes anyway.
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Re:s56 4x4 towing capacity

Date Posted:03/05/2011 02:30:11Copy HTML

Sounds interesting! I have a friend who has moved to Norway, keep meaning to drive up and see him. Do you know if there are many places in Sweden where you can legally drive off road? Also what is the situation with camping out there? Are you allowed to wild camp or is it camp sites only?

Matt.
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