Forum for Information only Visit https://www.facebook.com/groups/dodge50

Dodge50 > Technical section > Engine Help Go to subcategory:
Author Content
Dadee666
  • Unsubscribe Thread
  • Rank:Dodge Fan
  • Score:264
  • Posts:76
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:29/11/2010 08:04:13

Date Posted:06/12/2013 05:17:03Copy HTML

Just a thought, sitting near the southern tip of Spain, having just covered 1500 miles (& the same to return) with my S56/46,  Perkins 4.236 (3.8 litre) diesel @ 50mph max (been beeped at by lorries who are not allowed to overtake on some duel carriageways) & all at 18mpg......

... there must be a better (more economical & powerful) engine out there.  Most large modern campers seem to be fitted with 3 litre turbos, go almost as fast as cars & also return around 30 mpg.

Now, this might be heresy & I could be burnt inside a large wicker pyre for asking, but... 

Has anyone here successfully transplanted a very modern turbo diesel engine into one of our S-series & was it all they hoped for ?

or,

Has anyone investigated what could actually fit, with the aid of adapter brackets, looms & black boxes ?

There are plenty of very powerful lorries out there, but I suspect that their fuel figures are awful.

They make it all look very easy on Scrapheap challenge


mjamson Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
  • Rank:Specialist Dodger
  • Score:568
  • Posts:200
  • From:Sweden
  • Register:21/12/2008 12:56:10

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:18/12/2013 07:06:19Copy HTML

 hi

i'm pretty sure that you could fit any type of engine its all a question of time, knowledge and experience, with deep pockets.

ive heard of quite a few landrover people putting a dodge engine and gear box into a defender, ruining any chance of speed but giving the landy power to tow anything or driving up any incline.

ive been considering changing the engine fan for an electrical fan on mine - the name escapes me of the manufacturer but there is one who reckoned this gave about 5% on an old disco.

another non eninge mod is to look at tyres, they all have eco ratings now so fuel efficient one would help.  ive also talked to the tyre fitter here and discussed pressure and they reccomended a higher psi that has worked well for me (i cant remember off the top of my head but ive got it written down in the wagon)

the other way to go keeping your engine is to look at the gear box and axel as there are a few varients which can give a few more turns of the wheels to turns of the engine - but im assuming you already know of this.

as for an engine swap, ive been looking recently into the iveco daily trucks, and they dont seam to give much more of a return on fuel, we have crafters and sprinters at work and these engines IMO arent very good (they are each in the work shop every few weeks).  I suppose a small motor from a iveco cargo would fit an itd have plenty of umph but i would be a little unsure of how much the mpg would improve.

not much help, but it might be some food for thought.

mike
If something works, celebrate with tea and cakes... If it dosent, have tea and cakes anyway.
lr-exporter Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
  • Rank:Dodge Fan
  • Score:436
  • Posts:170
  • From:Unknown
  • Register:22/05/2004 05:07:32

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:18/12/2013 11:31:57Copy HTML

Hi,    I was in the same position about 10 years ago.       Whilst your mod is 1979 mine was 1983 S56 Van army spec. So stage by stage I upgraded for high cruising speed and economics.          I exchanged the engine from  standard 3.86 Dsl    to  4 Ltr TD as fitted to later MK IIs.         The standard 4 Spd Gearbox came out and replaced by 5 speed  overdrive type Gearbox also  a standard MK II fitment.              Although you have a 5 speed gearbox ZF manufacture, the  5th gear is  only 1 to 1 ratio, thus equaling the  4th gear on older models., so speedwise no advantage.                        Then I replaced the rear differential,  from short ratio about 5.6 to 1   to     3.54 to 1 equaling the fastest dodge ever made.           I think you have  dunlop wheel rims, only 16 inch, I  replaced these with  Kronprinz made by Mannesmann now Michelin , these are same as MKII,s just that Dodge fitted  small circumference Tyres giving no speed advantage.   I fitted  9.oo Tyres to  the 17.25 inch rims,   even 10.oo inch would safely fit.   Difference between the smallest and largest circumference tyres can mean upto 30 per cent  difference in speed.           Over the years I have thrown out the drum braked front axle for  solid disc braked type , thus gaining more reliability , cheaper in parts,   and easyness to service.               Today the vehicle is still modern and economical , and free of  electronic rubbish.          rgds   Lr exporter presently in Barbados  
looking for co-driver germany to Kenya
Karrier Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #3
  • Rank:Ummmmmmm
  • Score:11828
  • Posts:3686
  • From:England
  • Register:02/10/2003 09:22:56

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:23/12/2013 11:35:27Copy HTML

 Hi Robert, hope your having a great time in Barbados, the 3.54 to 1 diff was standard fitting in early S35 / 46 and 56 models which were fitted with the 4.236 engines, the s66 had 4.273, all had 4 speed chrysler as standard and turner t5 200 5 speed as an option, I must admit I have only ever had one 3.54 / 1 diff come in, all others have been the 4.273 or 4.875, the 5.43/1 was standard on the s35 with 2 litre petrol engine and the 5.43/1 was fitted to the s46 also with the 2 litre chrysler petrol engine.

so with those wheels and tyres, engine, diff ratio etc how fast does it go?
My old s75 with 4.236 would do 75mph empty but that was pushing it a bit.

"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams
Karrier Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #4
  • Rank:Ummmmmmm
  • Score:11828
  • Posts:3686
  • From:England
  • Register:02/10/2003 09:22:56

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:23/12/2013 11:39:37Copy HTML

 Rod, too answer your question, I have been told of a recovery that had a 5.2 cummins engine fitted, went like shit of a shovel and pulled anything within reason, 6 speed zf gearbox I think too :)

Hope your brakes are now working well with the recon servo (Chugg helped out with supplying the pin and main body clamp for it by the way, we owe him a pint or three) and you and Fran are having a great holiday

:)

"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams
Dadee666 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #5
  • Rank:Dodge Fan
  • Score:264
  • Posts:76
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:29/11/2010 08:04:13

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:02/01/2014 03:41:17Copy HTML

 Brakes/servo now worked a treat ! (2000 Km) - Yay !

We are now back in UK ! - Boo !

Hugely big thanks to Karrier & Chugg for digging me out of that enormous hole ! Especially with all their weather worries !

I will shortly be contributing my leaky type 100 servo to Greg's "reserve store", in case anyone else comes a cropper with their servo in  foreign parts in the future.

Only too happy to supply a pint or three especially if or when the Dodge50 "meet-up" comes off later this year ? (A new topic ??)

Greg, I will ring you in the evening soonish to sort out the S66 springs etc.

Thanks everyone, have a much nicer 2014,   Rod.

Dadee666 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #6
  • Rank:Dodge Fan
  • Score:264
  • Posts:76
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:29/11/2010 08:04:13

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:02/01/2014 04:27:47Copy HTML

Many thanks too all for your considered responses.

I have already improved on the rear diff ratio, changed all the tyres to 8.5R17.5 & changed the gearbox to 5spd non O/D.

My S46, Perkins 4.236 overall fuel consumption is around 18 mpg.(15.7L/100km)

This configuration gives me a VERY  useful top speed (slight down hill, wind behind etc.) of around 60-65mph.  (96-105 kph)

However, this drops off VERY rapidly going up hills & I can be soon doing as little as 40mph (64 kph) on "average hills & 30 (48 kph) mph on the steeper bits.

So... seems reasonable, what is your problem ? you might ask.

Its the OTHER  F%"*¬NG  LORRIES !!!!! 

France, especially on the Atlantic side, has extremely long sections of duel carriageway where the lorries are not allowed to overtake anything at all. This means that i can spend up to half an hour at a time trying unsuccessfully to get my speed over 50 mph & find a service station to pull over in, Because there is a huge HGV lorry sitting right on my tail, flashing his lights & blaring his air horns & a load more lorries piled up behind him. Same thing happens all over again when I again re-join the road.

Spain does not use the "no overtaking by lorries" much, except in snow. However, THEIR lorry drivers are JUST AS BAD on the single carriageway roads. (these now tend to have Armco barriers, so you cannot simply pull off to let the lorries past.)

What I should love is an engine which could give me an (uphill) average of 56 mph (90 kph) to keep pace with the modern lorries (& secondly, perhaps, give more mpg.)

Will the MK2 turbo do this ?   Availability ?   Worthwhile ?



Karrier Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #7
  • Rank:Ummmmmmm
  • Score:11828
  • Posts:3686
  • From:England
  • Register:02/10/2003 09:22:56

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:03/01/2014 12:32:35Copy HTML

 you could either try to find a T38 (rear turboed 4.236) which are quite rare or a 110 turbo, you will have to do a few mods like throttle cable, floorpan where gearstick comes through, gearbox too so maybe change  of front prop, oh and you would need a turbo sized inner engine cover (I have some of them if needed though no emgines).

I remember the lorries in france when in our bus, nasty, our 30ft motorhome goes down to 15MPH and 12MPG on steep hills, some  nasty ones i have to do in first gear!!!!!!!!!!!!!

New engine in that would be great :)brakes are all good now

Glad

"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams
mjamson Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #8
  • Rank:Specialist Dodger
  • Score:568
  • Posts:200
  • From:Sweden
  • Register:21/12/2008 12:56:10

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:03/01/2014 05:02:49Copy HTML

i get the same problem here with idiots wanting to over take.  although my dodge will maintain 60 ish quite happyily and i can puch it quite hard and get more, i choose to stick to 50mph (or 80kmh)

at my work its company policy to drive at 80kmh  (although we arent limited to it), overall it gives us a good balance of speed and economy.

i got fed up of the polish twits tail gaiting me so in the dirt i wrote 80 on the back in a big circle, and it seamed to do the trick, and some of our other trailers have stickers that say this, again they see the speed, and leave me alone.  i have been meaning to get a 80kmh sign for the dodge but not had time,

FYI i have the schwitzer (now BorgWarner) s2a turbo fitted to my engine (currently trying to find a seal kit for it)  the particular model no is 312724.

also something ive done to my wagon is to use a de-coking spray, not noticed too much difference on the dodge (low milage) but it made a huge difference on my old citröen in terms of economy and power.  http://reviews.halfords.com/4028/265959/reviews.htm

mike
If something works, celebrate with tea and cakes... If it dosent, have tea and cakes anyway.
mjamson Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #9
  • Rank:Specialist Dodger
  • Score:568
  • Posts:200
  • From:Sweden
  • Register:21/12/2008 12:56:10

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:03/01/2014 05:07:23Copy HTML

 you could also try putting some 'hgv style' marker plates on the back to justify your lower speed.


If something works, celebrate with tea and cakes... If it dosent, have tea and cakes anyway.
chugg89 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #10
  • Rank:Ummmmish
  • Score:1028
  • Posts:390
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:09/05/2007 09:14:22

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:04/01/2014 10:28:24Copy HTML

Howdy Rod, i'm still running the 110T (standard fitment on a '91 I think) and chugg up hills like just about every other '50 owner - my personal feeling would be that going for a turbo'd 4-pot Phaser will not give you the appreciable difference you are looking for, for your time and money

Rob Reznik talked, on a thread here a while back, of a larger (6-pot I think) 135T Phaser fitted to some east european 7.5t trucks, still with the mechanical fuel injection IIRC, so no nasty ECU/wiring/sensors to go wrong

I don't know that they are widely available here or if they would/could be physically compatible but some of the '50's originally had (straight?) 6-pots so I guess it's a possibility and one i'd be very interested in finding out more about - when it's time to pull my 110T out, i'd really rather drop something equally simple but more powerful in its place
it seemed like a good idea at the time
Dadee666 Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #11
  • Rank:Dodge Fan
  • Score:264
  • Posts:76
  • From:United Kingdom
  • Register:29/11/2010 08:04:13

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:06/01/2014 10:38:43Copy HTML

Lots of sense spoken here.

Seems like an engine change (if you can find a suitable one) would be   a) impractical &/or   b) poor value for money.

I think that Mike has the most interesting & practical idea.

Fit 80 kph plates.

They are only a couple of quid each  http://www.safety-label.co.uk/collections/speed-limit-stickers/products/reflective-80-kph-speed-limit-sticker-international.

I will fit some for my next European trip & see what happens..

  Rod.

mjamson Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #12
  • Rank:Specialist Dodger
  • Score:568
  • Posts:200
  • From:Sweden
  • Register:21/12/2008 12:56:10

Re:Swap to a modern diesel engine ?

Date Posted:14/01/2014 07:02:11Copy HTML

cheers for the link ill get one of those ordered for myself,  i did find some from china but i was weary of the quailty.

also thought that fitting an intercooler might help you out.  oh if i had more money to spend on my truck, itd be of pimp my ride worthy.

theres a bloke on the facebook page with an 8 litre v8 engine in his (is not a 50 series) but it might give you the extra power you want, ohh and it is supposidly a diesl so you get the economy with it :P
If something works, celebrate with tea and cakes... If it dosent, have tea and cakes anyway.
DISINFORMATION: This website has been knocked together with 2 bricks and a rubber chicken for your delight and I hope you all enjoy the fine discussions we have on the wonderful dodge50 series of vehicles, all information is either gleened from the official 50 series workshop manuals OR posted by members of the community.

DATINFORMATION: dodge50.co.uk takes no responsibility for any mistakes or advice given, it's up to you if you take it or not, remember, All material is copyright dodge50.co.uk 2002-2018 unless it's someone else's and it has been begged, borrowed or made up.

DISCLAIMER: Any libel or mistakes in messages that are written by members of the community, inc the admin's and owner of this site, dodge50.co.uk takes no responsibility for them, you need to contact the author and have a moan / send a writ / agree. (delete as you see fit) Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.......Etc.......Etc...........

free counters

Copyright © 2000- Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.