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dobbin
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Date Posted:24/04/2013 06:46:10Copy HTML

I have a big problem with the clutch on an S66. Fitted seal kits to master and a replacement 2nd hand slave cylinders as the slave was leaking badly, this was foud when replacing tghe complete clutch assembly as it wore out. Since then having big problems with air getting in.

Can bleed system fine, clutch then works fine at near top of pedal travel for about 20-30 miles, then very quickly drops to the floor followed by cannot change gear with engine running etc, have twice had to start in gear and limp home.

Despite having the master and slave taken off and seals checked again and reassmbled twice, multiple attempts at bleeding the thing, nothing seems to work.

So now won't drive it for fear of getting stuck somewhere with no clutch.

Anybody got any ideas?

I did think of just replacing the lot out of frustration, but the link posted by Karrier on the parts page did not work, didn't find any other references to clutch cylinder suppliers.

I did notice that the early Land Rover Discovery master cylinder looks very similar, just a plastic header tank, but the operating levers seem to have totally different ends in the cylinder, so didn't look like a straight swap.
Karrier Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:24/04/2013 07:23:18Copy HTML

 Hi there

I just had a clutch problem a couple of days ago, suddenly lost fluid & clutch but was not the master or slave seals or the red fluid pipe which I replaced just in case there was a split but that made no difference too, I could bleed it up but it would not hold, when I tried to bleed with a self bleed kit & as I was leaning in through the drivers door pushing the pedal by hand I noticed fluid coming up through the bleed nipples thread, so I tightened it up and when I pushed the pedal I got air bubbling from the thread.

Ok lucky for me in the back of the truck  had a spare so I popped some ptfe tape on the thread, popped it in, bleed it by hand with a cloth over the bleed nipple to avoid fluid everywhere, bled up fine, job done.

So the bleed nipple was not in good condition & the slave was a new one fitted 3 years ago, so check ya nipples everyone.

I will add that bleeding the slave cylinder can be a bit of a shit sometimes, if the rear of the vehicle is higher than the front, air can get trapped at the push rod end of the slave so you end up with  an air bubble & a crap clutch.

My work around needs two people, one under the vehicle one in the cab, the one in the cab does not push the pedal down, just opens the bleed nipple when told too, the one underneath uses a bar to push the push lever from gearbox / rod back so the piston in the slave goes the wrong way, this pushes any trapped air out the bleed nipple.

I did this with a self bleed before but having a real extra pair of hands is better because you can push the piston back a bit to build up some pressure & then the one in the cab releases the nipple a little bit while holding some rag over it or have a rubber pipe to jar on it & to then close it quickly.

Hope this helps.
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Karrier Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:24/04/2013 07:28:15Copy HTML

 and remember to keep that fluid topped up
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:24/04/2013 07:32:15Copy HTML

 oh yes the master & slaves are not available anymore from anywhere I can find &  have looked I can tell you, you can get them referbished by companies like www.pastparts.com, the landrover ones are the same as old morris marinias & are 17 not 19mm bore & have smaller pipe fittings, I know i got one to try it, even got the red pipe but it was too short anyway.
"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:26/04/2013 12:43:17Copy HTML

Many thanks for the info, I'll have a look at the bleed nipple and try the brutal bleeding suggestion.

There appears to be no fluid loss, in fact it seems to flow back into header tank which overflows a little.
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:26/04/2013 09:47:18Copy HTML

it may well be that air is trapped in the slave otherwise its a bit weird, when you lose the pedal it does sound like air is causing you to lose pressure so loss of clutch. if you are not losing fluid that is the only thing i can think of
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:28/04/2013 09:43:45Copy HTML

Thanks for all your suggestions.

So far we have found no leaks after replacing the slave ('cos it leaked very badly) with a 2nd hand unit that was fitted with new seal kit. The master was also fitted with seal kit at same time. Then 3 failures so far.

Almost zero mileage between the seal replacement and sending it for MOT, it failed on the way back, about 10 miles each way, bled again, then fuel fill trip about 8 miles round trip went ok, next trip after about 10 miles went OK, then a stop then fail on way back, another bleed having taken apart to check the seals etc, another 10 mile each way with a stop ok, then failed on the next trip after a couple of miles.

The clutch after bleeding feels fine, works consistently near top of pedal travel. Then when problem occurs pedal very quickly disappears, with progressively more travel needed until hit the floor and does not disengage gears, all seemingly within a few clutch operations. Then just feels like there is nothing to push against on the pedal. Some recovery is possible with a bit of pumping, but this is not reliable, sometimes works to change a gear sometimes not then starting in gear and turing off engine to stop has been the only option, luckily so far not been enough traffic in the way to be too much of a problem.

Not sure what else I can tell you.

I've now parked the thing facing up a reasonable slope, so will have a go at bleeding the thing again and check all oil exits etc, then go out and see what happens. Luckily I have recovery paid for, but daren't travel too far until I know it's fixed. 

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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:03/05/2013 09:27:45Copy HTML

 Having had fun with the RB clutch hydraulics recently I understand your frustration. Sounds like your seals are passing in the master cylinder, especially because you  mention the reservoir overflowing. have you checked the bore very carefully for scratches  or pitting, or assuming you have honed it, have you taken it out too far.
If your master cylinder is similar to the RB one then Raceparts, Merlin motorsport,  Demon tweeks etc do girling master cylinders, while not exactly the same they are pretty close that a bit of fettling would easily make them fit. 

P.s I fitted a schraeder valve to the filler cap to pressure bleed the clutch, which simplified things a great deal.
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:08/05/2013 05:47:03Copy HTML

Reply to Karrier (24/04/2013 20:23)

so check ya nipples everyone.



whats the reccomended checking interval ?

i check my missuses daily - is that regular enough ?
If something works, celebrate with tea and cakes... If it dosent, have tea and cakes anyway.
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:08/06/2013 03:01:25Copy HTML

Trapped air in clutch or brakes:    Terkaa's method worked very quickly on my clutch slave cylinder.  http://forum1.aimoo.com/Dodge50/TECHNICAL/Another-method-for-bleeding-brakes-1-2068299.html 

Here is link to clutch master cylinder seals:
http://forum1.aimoo.com/Dodge50/Technical-Specs/Clutch-cylinder-seals-1-1365780.html

Here is link to Terkaa's clutch slave seal modification:
http://forum1.aimoo.com/Dodge50/TECHNICAL/DIY-Remanufactured-Clutch-slave-cylinder-1-2206491.html
If you need a reamer then try ebay item number 190745542869 @ £26.29 inc p/p (It also does for your Kingpins).

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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:29/01/2014 09:42:16Copy HTML

Still having major problems with clutch, repated new seal kits including a new mini set as per links on this forum.

New seals in slave, new seals in master, bled brakes facing up hill, all the tips from this forum.

Then drive for a few miles, clutch is fine while being used, then drive a long stretch without using it, when try to use clutch next time almost certain pedal will go to floor with no clutch at all. No amount of pumping will recover it. So have to limp home with no clutch, or bleed it at side of the road then all will be well for a few miles, then it'll go again.

It looks like the the oil has been forced back into the reservoir and overflowed the top.

The master and slave cylinders are clean and undamaged/unscored inside, all the little holes are clear etc.

Been trying to fix this for over a year, now failed on the way back from 2 MOTs, vehicle just cannot be used, any ideas, 'cos I've run out???????????????? 
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:31/01/2014 01:27:43Copy HTML

 only things i can think of is that either the master is letting in air when being pushed down, there is a small hole / split in the red piping, some will let air in but not fluid out, or so little you don't notice but the air gets in, the bleed nipple on the slave is letting air in through the thread (this has happened to me, took a while to work out what it was).

I don't think it will be the slave though if it is a recon one the stainless lining that gets put in can be a place of failing, i came accross one last year and it was letting in air between the new lining and the old casing, only a little but enough.

if it is overflowing back to the resovoire it might be the 'front' seal is failing in the master cylinder,

"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:31/01/2014 01:29:46Copy HTML

 Oh I can get new master cylinders and slave cylinders can be re conditioned, i also have some of the red piping with decent ends, might even have a new one somewhere
"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:31/01/2014 04:51:27Copy HTML

How is the red pipe fitted so it stays on the pipes, as there are no retaining clips?

I'll send message on the master cylinder, last time I investigated on here none were available.
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:31/01/2014 04:58:59Copy HTML

At least I would send a message if I could find a way to do it, need a price for the new master cyliner and a red pipe, posted to Bucks, thanks
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:31/01/2014 08:21:04Copy HTML

I will send you an email to the one you used to join this forum and will also send it as a message here, to send me one click on the envelope icon under my avatar
"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams
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Re:Bleeding clutch problem

Date Posted:31/01/2014 08:22:22Copy HTML

I have found a supplier of new master cylinders :)
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